Tuesday, January 2, 2007 - Comments/Ideas by ASK Joommal ...Lenasia (South Africa) on 13 October 2006
Muhtarm, my dear Brother Riaz:
Salaam-o-Rahmat, and Ramadaan Mubaarak, and very soon, EID MUBAARAK!!
As requested, I have proofread your manuscript, and must congratulate you on your Quran-permeated thoughts. Keep up the excellent work, and may Allah bless you, and brother A. Aziz.
Very best wishes, du'as and salaam,
Affectionately,
ASK Jommal (Editor of Al-Balaagh)
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Tuesday, January 2, 2007 - question |
| Posted by ichabod |
| howdy there, since you guys seem to be good muslims, would you mind clearing up a few question for me concerning islam? I just kind of want to get briefed in on what it is, since there is a lot of propaganda being circulated about it, and I try to keep an open and honest mind. Thanks! |
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Wednesday, January 3, 2007 - Response for ichadob |
| Posted by Scholar |
Thanks for asking a fundamental - yet a very important question....
Islam is not a religion but away of life. Its purpose is to establish a system that ensures the welfare of a mankind by providing them with shelter, food, security, justice, law and order. It ensures that every individual is treated equally, irrelevant of their background, culture or religious beliefs. It eliminates the gap between rich and poor by prohibiting the hoarding up of wealth and ensuring its distribution on the basis of ones requirements. Thus eradicating jealousy, crime and poverty. This system is free from the deadly impact of usury, adultery, gambling and racial hatred. When equality and justice is obtained then the people of that society can concentrate on more important issues like Spirituality and worship of one God.
What you see on the media is a just a witch-hunt and propaganda in relation to Islam and the Muslims - so that the elite can have a common enemy to full fill their selfish need. But thats a different story.
And as a Muslim , I would like to be self critical aswell...we do not help ourselves by following rituals that have been passed by our forefathers that have nothing to do with pure Islam that liberated women and Slaves 1400 years ago. The Holy Quran is in its pure form and not altered iota from day one. The only people that have changed are the Muslims. Hence, the disunity!
"Above all other things, the physical and spiritual development of individual is at the heart of this system."
Peace.
Riaz
Edited by Scholar on Wednesday, January 3, 2007 at 01:16 |
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Wednesday, January 3, 2007 - hmm... |
| Posted by ichabod |
| Thanks for the info. My only question then would be, why are my brothers and sisters in Christ being killed and tortured in muslim countries? Voice Of The Martyrs is a reputable magazine showing what is happening to our fellow Christians. Is this what you're talking about when you mention the disunity? |
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Wednesday, January 3, 2007 - Voice Of The Martyrs |
| Posted by Scholar |
I sense your concern my friend about the issue of killing of your Christian Brothers and
Sisters in Muslim countries. Believe me this is much of a concern to me as it is to you.
I am not going to deny or defend any such activities of killing Innocent people no matter what race or background!
This is a real good question and may have many reasons. None of the reasons to my mind
should be condoned. Unless you have to defend yourself against unwanted occuppying forces
that are illegally entering ,stealing, raping and pillaging your land. Even then you should
raise arms to defend and not to kill.
Going back to your question, Islam has been hijacked by certain internal groups, you have
certain factions that have grievances with their Politicians, Governments and cause civil
war without a thought for the innocent victims. On the other hand you have Governments that
use the "Divide and Conquer Policy". Its in turmoil and I will admit that. But NO MUSLIM
that has any thought about humanity or his Gods word would ever kill. Terrosrism is totally
against the tenents of Islam.
Likewise my Friend, Less people have died in Iraq in 30 years of Sadams rule then the 3
years of Bush and Blaires illegal war/occupation in that country. Who is killing who?
Propaganda? I live in England and the majority here are real upset with Blaires association with the war. But thats a different topic.
I believe majority of the people on the ground are loving people and want peace on Earth.
But there is a handful of fanatics that spoil it by twisting Gods words to suite their
means. And it all gets blown out of proportion.
You mentioned Voice Of The Martyrs. Is this the website? http://www.persecution.com/ .I shall have a look.
Regards
Riaz
Edited by Scholar on Wednesday, January 3, 2007 at 05:39 |
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Thursday, January 4, 2007 - question |
| Posted by Anonymous |
Hmm... Interesting. The killing and torturing that I was speaking of was the persecution that my Christian brothers and sisters endure for their faith. I am not speaking of troops.
Also, I have heard that the quaran condones the killing of men of other beliefs. Is this true?
I feel highly inclined to study the quaran, and see these things for myself.
Thanks for your time, and I look forward to further discussion. |
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Thursday, January 4, 2007 - You ask if the Quran condones "Killing of the Infidel". |
| Posted by Scholar |
The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.
There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by those trying to malign the faith, or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.
For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors.
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression" (2:190-193).
It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.
Another similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.
This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).
Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."
Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.
The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):
"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."
Always remember when studying/understand the quran, is that the verses were revealed to Prophet Muhammed (p.b.u.h) in different situtations. So you have to understand the verse and connect that with the historical event at the time.
Regards
Riaz
Edited by Scholar on Thursday, January 4, 2007 at 05:02 |
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Friday, January 5, 2007 - hmm... |
| Posted by Anonymous |
| I don't want to sound like I'm cherry picking or splitting hairs, but you wrote yourself how a muslim is instructed to slay the pagans unless they repent. So islam is a highly intolerent religion then, it seems. I can see evidence of this in many places across the world. Men and women being killed and tortured FOR THEIR FAITH. Obviously, your bible commands you to do this, (unless they "repent" to your religion) correct? |
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Friday, January 5, 2007 - Good News |
| Posted by Anonymous |
In contrast to this, the Gospel of Jesus Christ offers free Salvation to the world, to any who believe on him.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." Christ Jesus left his glory in Heaven to come to this world, to die to pay the huge debt that we owe because of our many sins. He poured out his love for the world when his Son died, and now he "commands men everywhere to repent". You must believe that God meant what he said, that he did what he said he would do, accept the sacrifice of his Son's blood to create a barrier between you and the wrath of God that is building up, like water behind a dam, because of our sin and unbelief. May God's Holy Spirit reveal this truth to you for His Glory. |
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Friday, January 5, 2007 - Untitled Comment |
| Posted by Scholar |
This is my exact point about cherry picking certain verse's out of the Quran without first understanding the historical event in which the revelation was first given to Prophet Muhammed (p.b.u.h).
I wrote:
Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."
NOW
The idolaters of Arabia were implacable enemies of Islam and were bent upon extirpating the Muslims. Under pressure, they would sometimes agree to a peace treaty, but whenever an opportunity presented itself, they would ignore these treaties and attack the Muslims.
The above verse is saying - keep away from mischief, dishonesty and form a bond with God. No where in the Quran does it give Muslims the license to kill Non-Muslim. Do you honestly think that a religion of peace would propagate murder? Do you think that the majority of peace loving Muslims , including me would follow a God that was so sexist, biased and evil? No would be the answer. I again reiterate please read the verse within its historical context. It is quite easy and I dont blame you for coming to such conclusions.
May I ask something about Christianity?
Riaz
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Friday, January 5, 2007 - hmm... |
| Posted by ichabod |
OK, I can see this, I didn't mean to cherry pick or any such thing, I just see ample room for a Muslim who does not limit his own ideas as far as you do to run with it. However, all of this trying to bring peace and harmony among men is in vain, so long as Jesus Christ is ignored. His atoning blood, which was shed for all men, cries out from the ground for justice. All man has sinned, "for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God..." and as such, a due reward is necessary for this sin. "for the wages of sin is death" , but, God, in his love and mercy, provided a way out, "but the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ..." I expounded upon this in slightly greater detail in my last post. While muhammed could only claim to have had the truth revealed to him, Jesus Christ said "I am the way, the TRUTH and the LIFE". Without Jesus Christ as sole Lord and Master of our lives, life is purposeless. I sincerely ask you to consider this fact, that you have sinned against a righteous and Holy God, and that, because of this sin, His wrath is building up against you, reserved against the day of judgment, but Jesus Christ died for you, and not only wants, but commands, that you accept his blood as a propitiation for your sins, and ask him to become Lord and Master of your life.
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Monday, January 22, 2007 - Untitled Comment |
| Posted by Anonymous |
I want to ask one question.........
Is suicide bomber are doing a good thing or bad??
Is it according to Islam or not????
One thing I want to explain that is, if a person do not have left with any option.......his enemies are brave than him........he do not have any arms to fight his enemies......than what he do?????except to give his life?? |
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Monday, January 22, 2007 - Suicide Bombers |
| Posted by Scholar |
I hope you dont mind, But this message board is only opened to questions about the Social and Justice model that I am promoting. But ONLY on this occasion I shall answer your question.
Why do they do it, and what does Islam say about their actions?
"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors."
Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:190)
The dangerous escalation of violence in the world is disturbing to all people of conscience, from September 11 to the Middle East battles, and other random acts of violence perpetrated at innocent civilians.
In the fight against terrorism of all forms, it is important to understand who or what is our enemy. We can only fight against this horror if we understand its causes and motivations. What motivates a person to lash out in this violent, inhumane way? That is something that all of us -- mental health professionals, politicians, and common people -- need to understand, so that we can address the issues more honestly, prevent more violence, and find ways to work towards lasting peace.
In Islam, several things are clear:
Suicide is forbidden. "O ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).
The taking of life is allowed only by way of justice (i.e. the death penalty for murder), but even then, forgiveness is better. "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause..." (17:33).
In pre-Islamic Arabia, retaliation and mass murder was commonplace. If someone was killed, the victim's tribe would retaliate against the murderer's entire tribe. This practice was directly forbidden in the Qur'an (2:178-179). Following this statement of law, the Qur'an says, "After this, whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave chastisement" (2:178). No matter what wrong we perceive as being done against us, we may not lash out against an entire population of people.
The Qur'an admonishes those who oppress others and transgress beyond the bounds of what is right and just. "The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice. For such there will be a chastisement grievous (in the Hereafter)" (42:42).
Harming innocent bystanders, even in times of war, was forbidden by the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This includes women, children, noncombatant bystanders, and even trees and crops. Nothing is to be harmed unless the person or thing is actively engaged in an assault against Muslims.
The predominant theme in the Qur'an is forgiveness and peace. Allah (God) is Merciful and Forgiving, and seeks that in His followers. Indeed, most people who spend time on a personal level with ordinary Muslims have found them to be peaceful, honest, hard-working, civic-minded people.
O ye who believe! Remain steadfast for Allah, bearing witness to justice. Do not allow your hatred for others make you swerve to wrongdoing and turn you away from justice. Be just; that is closer to true piety."
Qur'an, Surah al-Maidah (5:8)
Edited by Scholar on Monday, January 22, 2007 at 05:43 |
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About Me
UNITY, FAITH and DISCIPLINE has always been a great Slogan and is important to my message.
Call it Socialism or Communism - we need a reformation to this corrupt Western Economic sytem that is draining the people. Its a cliche, but the rich are getting richer and the poor are are getting poorer. Eradicate "Usury" and circulate skills, money and education equally to everyone. Its the only way forward!
So kick out the corruption that infests amongsts the elite!
PLEASE NOTE: This message board is only used to help, promote and discuss the idea of our Economic, Social and Justice model that we have proposed. Any abusive, offensive and Irrelavant questions will be deleted......Riaz A
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