Justice For All - "We need your input" -

Justice For All - "We need your input"

Thursday, February 15, 2007 -

Welcome to Unity, Faith and Discipline

Thursday, February 15, 2007 - How?

Honestly Sir, I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, but what do you want us to do about it? The problem isn't in our society or our values as Americans. The problem lies with the governments of all these foreign countries who are so concerned with starting and prolonging civil wars, wars with their neighbors, territoriality, corruption, etc, that they can't/don't care for their own citizens. It's not our fault that the leadership in those countries won't do the right thing. I feel sorry for the people there - I truly do! But what can I do about it? Nothing really. America has it's hand in so many countries trying to help them out, that us stepping up to the plate again won't make a difference. There's a saying: you can't give people democracy - they have to take it. The same applies here. Until the people in those countries stand up and make changes for themselves, the problem will never end. And to ask me, as a citizen of my own country, to give up everything I've worked so hard for, just to give those people a chance. Nonsense! I've worked hard for years to get where I am. And I'm so busy trying to take care of my own family... how can I find time to take this kind of thing on? I can't, if I want to devote time to my family. No sir. I'm sorry, but until the people in those countries step up and help themselves (I know that not all are able to help, but there are a lot that ARE able), there's nothing we can do that will help them. God helps those that help themselves. They have to want it. We can't give it to them. To ask us to change our way of life because it's not fair to them is just wrong.

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - APOSTATES

Posted by JAWAID AHMED

The Punishment Of Apostates

Following Channel 4’s “Apostate” programme I would like all my Muslim Brothers and Sisters to look at what the Word of Allah has to say on the subject and what our “scholars” are advocating.
(A scholar did say that all apostates are safe in the UK but he did not say that this was un-Islamic and should be abolished in every Muslim country).

An apostate is a person who renounces their beliefs. In Islam they are condemned for changing there religion and this is applied to anyone who has been a Muslim and then converted to something else, e.g. Christianity. Every so often the media relate how a particular person in a “Muslim” country has been condemned to death for renouncing Islam. Beheading or stoning to death are the “favoured” methods of execution. It is usually, but not exclusively, in those countries which are the most backward in terms of economic development, education for women as well as for men, and regard human life and dignity as something not worth respecting. Let us look at what the Quran has to say on the subject.
Surah 2 verse 256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.

Can there be anything clearer than this? Allah, the Almighty, All-Knowing, Creator and Sustainer of the universe, has decreed that He does not wish for any compulsion to be placed on mankind to believe in what He has Revealed. Therefore, no man has the right to force his religious beliefs upon another. Someone who can see the truth as opposed to falsehood is on the right path but they must decide for themselves. Full religious freedom within an Islamic society is the way decreed by Allah and no-one can say otherwise.

This does not mean that a Christian in a Muslim country can ignore the laws and regulations of that land. He must abide by the law of the land, “when in Rome do as the Romans do”, but his personal beliefs are his own affair. If a man believes in idol worship then he can do so, if he wants to worship fire, no problem with me because I know his end is hell fire. If, however, he believes in, for example, human sacrifice then the Islamic government, as well as any normal, decent, intelligent person has the authority to stop him. To stop oppression, slavery, abuse of the innocent and weak are Islamic principles so we can fight against the non believers, as well as the tyrants and dictators in charge of the fractured Muslim Ummah, to eliminate these.
You may say that there is no problem with a person being a non Muslim but punishment is only applied to those who leave the “house of Islam”. If you have not understood “no compulsion” then try to read the following, maybe the vast number of Quranic verses that speak of freedom of choice will trigger some brain activity that is lacking in your indoctrinated heads!
Surah 50 verse 45. We know best what they say; and you are not one to overawe them by force. So admonish with the Quran such as fear My Warning!
Here the Prophet was told that he could not force people to believe but only show them the Quran and what is right from wrong. He therefore could not condemn anyone so who are these “scholars” who advocate the death sentence to those who change their religion from Islam?
Surah 10 verse 99. If it had been your Lord's will, they would all have believed, - all who are on earth! Will you then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!
This verse states that even Allah does not compel people to believe. He has given mankind free will to choose the right path as well as the wrong; it is up to us which one we want to follow. Again, who are the “scholars” who advocate the death sentence for apostates? Are they saying that they know better than Allah about punishing those converting away from Islam? You are on a slippery slope into hell, brothers!
Surah 6 verses 104 to 107 "Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings." Therefore we explain the signs by various (symbols): that they may say, "You have taught (us) diligently," and that We may make the matter clear to those who know. Follow what you are taught by inspiration from your Lord: there is no god but He: and turn aside from those who join gods with Allah. If it had been Allah’s plan, they would not have taken false gods: but We did not make you to watch over their doings, nor are you set over them to dispose of their affairs.
The Prophet was not there to watch over their affairs or to see if they are believers or not. He was to turn away from those who worship false gods and NOT STONE THEM TO DEATH! The Quran is quite clear and the Prophet understood what it said so any hadith quoted by the “scholars” to advocate the death sentence must be rejected as a malicious attempt to defame the Prophet and turn Islam into a barbaric religion. We must judge what is being done in the so-called name of Islam by the only true criterion, The Furqan, which is the Quran. To ignore it and allow the murder of innocent people on the pretext that the Prophet allowed this to happen is condemning us all to hell if we do not stand up and oppose such practices.
Surah 3 verses 128-129 Not for you, (but for Allah) is the decision: Whether He turns in mercy to them, or punishes them; for they are indeed wrong-doers. To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth. He forgives whom He pleases and punishes whom He pleases; but Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Surah 4 verse 137. Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief, - Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way.
If you can bring me a hadith to support the death sentence for apostates then Allah wasted His time revealing the above Surah (I have enlarged it in the hope that it may become clearer but fourteen hundred years of ancestor worship has reduced to Quran to a secondary source of law and authority). You can see that Allah allows the ignorant to believe and disbelieve many times, and He will judge them. Allah did not say “those who believe, then reject faith, then kill them” does He? If Allah had wanted us to punish an apostate He would have clearly said to do so.
Those who are non believers who engage in practices that are contrary to the Quran but are not in the illegal activities that have punishments assigned to them will be forgiven or not by Allah. It is not up to us to punish them; we cannot take the role of Allah but leave it to Him to decide.
How many more verses do you need before you see what the Quran tells us what we should be doing? Ok, let me show you!

Surah 45 verse 14-15 Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah. It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each people according to what they have earned. If any one does a righteous deed, it ensures to the benefit of his own soul; if he does evil, it works against (his own soul). In the end you will (all) be brought back to your Lord.

Forgive those who reject the Quran means exactly that. Treat non-believers with respect and hope that they will one day see the truth. Those who are rejecting Islam are usually rejecting the backward, Mullah propagated, ritualistic “religion” that Islam has become. When you study the true Deen these false practices and beliefs are shown for what they are, man made interpolated ideas that are followed instead of the Word of Allah. The Quran even says not to ridicule them as this may mean that they will ridicule Allah through ignorance.

Surah 6 verse 108 Do not revile those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. We have made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.

The punishment for reviling Allah or the Messenger is again missing from the Quran. Allah even says that He has made their false beliefs “alluring” for them, in other words, falsehood looks good. On Judgement Day, Allah will show them the error of their ways, again no beheading etc in this world. The Prophet has throughout history been vilified by ignorant people who seem to get most of their ammunition from the false hadith and false history. We Muslims seem to eat up this falsehood just because we have been told it is true and to deny this falsehood is going outside the “house of Islam”. The Mullahs have gained a strangle hold on the Muslim psyche and any questioning of their ranting is condemned, God forbid we show them a Quranic verse, they would not even recognise it! This brings up the stoning to death of apostates which most fear so we Muslims sit back in the Mosques and listen to the Mullah tell us how many times the Prophet could sleep with each of his wives in one night or some other gems from Bukhari!

Surah 3 verse 21. As to those who deny the verses of Allah and in defiance of right, slay the prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty.
You may be thinking about condemning me to death for writing this truth but anyone condemning so-called apostates to death or murdering those who stand up for the true Islam of the Quran and not the ritual based, ancestor worshipping practices we have today will have to face Allah on Judgement Day. If you desire to follow the malpractices of this world then this will end only in having no existence in the future, hereafter, you have been warned.
Surah 18 verses 27-31 And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord: none can change His Words, and none will you find as a refuge other than Him.
And keep your soul content with those who call on their Lord morning and evening, seeking His Face; and let not your eyes pass beyond them, seeking the pomp and glitter of this life; nor obey any whose heart We have permitted to neglect the remembrance of Us, one who follows his own desires, whose case has gone beyond all bounds.
Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!
As to those who believe and work righteousness, We shall not suffer to perish the reward of any who do a (single) righteous deed.
For them will be Gardens of Eternity; beneath them rivers will flow; they will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold, and they will wear green garments of fine silk and heavy brocade: They will recline therein on raised thrones. How good the recompense! How beautiful a couch to recline on!

The Prophet understood all of this because he was a “walking Quran”. He followed what was revealed to him so I will now show you what Bukhari has to say when dealing with apostates and you can decide for yourself what you want to believe, the lies against our Prophet or the Quran, there is no compulsion in the Deen of Allah.

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57: Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58: Narrated Abu Burda:
Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

When Muslims went into new countries they allowed full religious freedom to everyone. That was why, amongst other reasons, that the populations did not rise up against their new “masters” but lived in peace. “There is no compulsion” confirmed by the Quran, as stated above, but look what Bukhari has to offer:-

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24: Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

To make matters worse Bukhari has our beloved Prophet sending his followers to assassinate people as well! Can you truly believe that the Prophet would act in such a manner as depicted in the following hadith.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 264: Narrated Al-Bara bin Azib:
Allah's Apostle sent a group of Ansari men to kill Abu-Rafi. One of them set out and entered their (i.e. the enemies) fort. That man said, "I hid myself in a stable for their animals. They closed the fort gate. Later they lost a donkey of theirs, so they went out in its search. I, too, went out along with them, pretending to look for it. They found the donkey and entered their fort. And I, too, entered along with them. They closed the gate of the fort at night, and kept its keys in a small window where I could see them. When those people slept, I took the keys and opened the gate of the fort and came upon Abu Rafi and said, 'O Abu Rafi. When he replied me, I proceeded towards the voice and hit him. He shouted and I came out to come back, pretending to be a helper. I said, 'O Abu Rafi, changing the tone of my voice. He asked me, 'What do you want; woe to your mother?' I asked him, 'What has happened to you?' He said, 'I don't know who came to me and hit me.' Then I drove my sword into his belly and pushed it forcibly till it touched the bone. Then I came out, filled with puzzlement and went towards a ladder of theirs in order to get down but I fell down and sprained my foot. I came to my companions and said, 'I will not leave till I hear the wailing of the women.' So, I did not leave till I heard the women bewailing Abu Rafi, the merchant of Hijaz. Then I got up, feeling no ailment, (and we proceeded) till we came upon the Prophet and informed him."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 265: Narrated Al-Bara bin Azib:
Allah's Apostle sent a group of the Ansar to Abu Rafi. Abdullah bin Atik entered his house at night and killed him while he was sleeping.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 271: Narrated Jabir:
The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)."

If you want to believe that our beloved Prophet called for the assassination of any human being in direct contradiction of the Quran and Allah, then there is no hope for you! Are we so blind that we look upon “sahih” Bukhari without any thought and believe every word that this man wrote? Are we not worse than the Christians who turned a mere man, Jesus, into their god? A billion Christians cannot be wrong, can they?

JAWAID AHMED
188 ALUM ROCK ROAD
ALUM ROCK
BIRMINGHAM B8 1HU
TEL 0121 327 0730

Edited by Scholar on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 at 11:15

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Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - Dear arrowhead42

Posted by Scholar

Thank you for posting on the Boards. The fact is that you have been misguided through your loyalty and Patriotism to your "Great Country". You have to look closer at home for solutions. Islam was not spread by the sword - that a Myth. It's American Imperialism that is spread by the sword.

Because of this Imperialism and Capitalism, the American Government have made it hard for the third world nations to rise and help themselves. Not to mention the “Puppet Regimes” that is placed in these countries by Americans. Just like a Debtor, who is going deeper and deeper in a Black Hole, as interest and penalties are put on him!

I advise you to watch “The War on Democracy” by John Pilger. You will get an idea of what I mean. Google it.

Dear J Ahmed,

Thank you for your thoughts. I am impressed and commend you for using your intellect in questioning Hadith Literature that contradicts the "Word of God". Not many people have the sense or courage to do that. Allah's word is first!!!

Edited by Scholar on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 at 06:51

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About Me

UNITY, FAITH and DISCIPLINE has always been a great Slogan and is important to my message. Call it Socialism or Communism - we need a reformation to this corrupt Western Economic sytem that is draining the people. Its a cliche, but the rich are getting richer and the poor are are getting poorer. Eradicate "Usury" and circulate skills, money and education equally to everyone. Its the only way forward! So kick out the corruption that infests amongsts the elite! PLEASE NOTE: This message board is only used to help, promote and discuss the idea of our Economic, Social and Justice model that we have proposed. Any abusive, offensive and Irrelavant questions will be deleted......Riaz A